Designing and Building Mid-Illinois: Kitchen Refresh vs Kitchen Gut

Summary

In this episode, Chris and Kaitlin discuss the critical decision homeowners face when considering a kitchen remodel: whether to refresh the existing kitchen with cosmetic updates or to undertake a complete gut renovation. They explore the pros and cons of each option, emphasizing the importance of assessing the kitchen's layout, structural integrity, and utility needs. The conversation also touches on the financial implications of remodeling, including the ROI trap that can mislead homeowners about the value of their investments. 

Takeaways

• Homeowners must decide between a simple refresh or a complete gut renovation.
• A cosmetic refresh can be effective if the kitchen's structure is sound.
• DIY projects can save money but require significant effort and skill.
• Proper preparation is crucial for painting cabinets to avoid future issues.
• Layout problems in a kitchen cannot be fixed with paint alone.
• Structural integrity of cabinets is essential for a successful remodel.
• Utilities like gas lines and plumbing should be handled by professionals.
• Investing in safety and functionality is more important than aesthetics. A major kitchen remodel does not guarantee a return on investment.
• Homeowners should budget 10-15% of their home's value for kitchen renovations.
• If it's your forever home, prioritize personal enjoyment over resale value.
• Cabinet refacing is a cost-effective way to refresh a kitchen.
• Smart compromises can maximize impact without major disruption.
• Consider how long you plan to stay in your home before remodeling.
• Memorial Day serves as a reminder of the sacrifices made for our freedoms.
• Community and neighborly support are essential during holidays.

www.bigdogcc.com

Produced by Big Dog Media group with Big Dog Business Coaching

Transcript

SPEAKER_05 0:00

Welcome to Design and Building Mid-Ellinois, one home at a time with Big Dog Construction.

SPEAKER_03 0:04

The podcast you didn't know you needed.

SPEAKER_05 0:06

It's Chris Hartzuck and Caitlin Morgini. Join us as we explore the stories, expertise, and projects shaping the future right here in Mid-Ellinois.

SPEAKER_03 0:14

Whether you're planning to build, curious about the latest trends, or just love innovative ideas, we've got insights and inspiration coming your way. And some laughs too.

SPEAKER_05 0:23

Let's go.

unknown 0:24

Big dog!

SPEAKER_01 0:26

In the military, there's no such thing as good enough. You either do the job the right way or you don't do it at all. I'm Blake Middleton of Elite Roofing Professionals and Exteriors. I'm a veteran and I brought the same mission-first mindset back to Illinois. While others talk about the way it's always been done, my team focuses on the technical precision of how a roof should be built. We use the best materials, the best technology, and a level of communication you won't find anywhere else. Your home isn't just a job, it's a commitment. Elite roofing, high standards, zero compromise, clear communication. Give us a call today.

SPEAKER_05 1:01

Hey, welcome back to Design and Building Mid-Illinois One Home at a Time. I'm your host, Chris, with Big Dog Construction, your local Window Depot USA. And back with me again is the lovely Caitlin.

SPEAKER_03 1:12

Hi, and I'm ready to talk about the undisputed heavyweight champion.

SPEAKER_05 1:20

Hey, that's right, the kitchen, folks. It's the heart of the home, it's where everyone gathers, and it's the number one room that can make you fall in love with your house or completely lose your mind. And today we are tackling the Ultimate Kitchen Crossroads, the kitchen refresh versus the kitchen gut. This is where homeowners agonize. Do you spend a few hundred bucks on paint and new hardware, or do you call in the crew, bring out the dumpster, and rip it down to the bare studs, right? Today we're going to give you the exact checklist to know which route is right for your home and your wallet. So, and speaking of wallet, let's pay a few bills, right? Excellent. You know what? We want to talk about our 10x partner, elite roofing professionals. Blake Middleton and his crew over there. We talk about them every week.

SPEAKER_03 2:08

The true undisputed champion.

SPEAKER_05 2:11

Oh, there you go. The true undisputed champion when it comes into the roofing. Roofing, that's right. Elite Roofing Professionals. Uh they are covering Mid-Illinois and beyond now. Uh opened up in Ohio as well, uh, expanding all their offerings, and their team is ready to help in this time of year and all times of the year on that. So make sure you reach out to them, Elite Roofing Professionals at 217-851-3836, or that's 217-851-3836, however you'd like to say that. And you can find them on that interweb thing at Eliteroofing Professionals.com. Reach out to them and give those guys a great call over there. And you know what? Not just guys. Jenny's in there. They got some other ladies in there as well. Great team. Great team.

SPEAKER_03 2:54

Elite.

SPEAKER_05 2:54

That's right. Elite Roofing Professionals. So back to kitchen. Are we going to paint it or get the son of a bitch out, right? Sorry. Ooh, I jumped right into that hard. I went hard. But it is.

SPEAKER_03 3:06

It's a hard, it's a it's the champion. It's the heavyweight champion. This is a big time thing we're talking about.

SPEAKER_05 3:12

Last week we talked about the first 10 seconds, your curb appeal, curb appeal versus curb. Confusion, right? You know, but now we're in the home because you get past that first, okay. Yeah, I can handle the bushes, landscape. Oh, yeah. You get into the home, the kitchen is it, right? So let's start with the option that looks so easy on social media: the DIY refresh. Painting the cabinets, changing the knobs, maybe a new backsplash, right? We can do that. Look, a cosmetic refresh is incredibly powerful if the bones are good. Bones are good, right? I'm flexing here for those that are just listening, right?

SPEAKER_03 3:48

One thing that bothers me so much is paint going on a wall that needs like fixed up, smoothed out.

SPEAKER_05 3:58

Smoothed out or holes filled.

SPEAKER_03 4:00

Yeah. Let's not just slap some paint on there, guys.

SPEAKER_05 4:05

Let's slap some paint on it and send it down the road, right? Hey, if you got solid wood cabinets, a layout that actually works for your family, right? And you just hate the 1990s oak color, paint is your best friend, right? Let's paint the stuff. We've got great trades around here that can handle painting your cabinets for you, getting that refreshed.

SPEAKER_03 4:24

Oh, well, that's nice.

SPEAKER_05 4:24

Yeah, and it saves you thousands of dollars. But here's the catch painting cabinets is hard work if you want it to last. I mean, if you're gonna try to DIY it.

SPEAKER_03 4:33

See, that's what I was kind of talking about there. I mean, you got to get sanding involved.

SPEAKER_05 4:37

You do, and and a lot of the well, the biggest thing is if you're going to paint your cabinets over an existing stained cabinet, there are uh some paints will not penetrate and adhere to the polyurethane coatings on those. But there are products that will grip, it's a gripper paint that adhere themselves to that polyurethane coating, right? And that's the key thing on that. Um, so you got to make sure that you you do the right thing. So because it is brutal, if you don't prep, sand, prime, and use the right factory grade finish, that paint is going to start chipping around the handles within six months or less, right?

SPEAKER_03 5:16

The corners.

SPEAKER_05 5:16

A refresh is supposed to save you money, but if you have to pay someone to strip off a bad DIY paint job later, then you're paying for it twice, if not thrice. Right. Right? So that is key. Also, you know, it says it can start chipping off within six months around your knobs and stuff where you're grabbing the handles. But if you have a higher humidity home, same thing. That could that wood underneath can be impregnated with moisture and not allowing the paint to breathe properly and make your paint peel.

SPEAKER_03 5:44

Remember, guys, it's all a chemical reaction here at the Big Dog Podcast.

SPEAKER_05 5:48

We got chemical, chemical reaction.

SPEAKER_03 5:49

Everything's got chemistry to it.

SPEAKER_05 5:51

Chemistry, man. We're all about chemistry.

SPEAKER_03 5:53

But you can't just go pick up regular paint, is what we're saying, guys. Like do your research and make sure the cabinets are obviously functional. Which meaning, like if your cabinets aren't functional, you should that's when you should probably think about ripping.

SPEAKER_05 6:08

Yep, right. That's that when to rip out and when not, right? So when do you stop fighting the old kitchen and just commit to the gut job, right? That's that's kind of where we're gonna flow into now. There are three red flags. Three, three, count them, one, two, three, right.

SPEAKER_03 6:25

Uh, those thres.

SPEAKER_05 6:26

Right? That means it's time to rip it out. First, first one is the layout. If your refrigerator opens and blocks a dishwasher, or if you have zero counter space next to the stove, the paint isn't fixing a bad layout.

SPEAKER_03 6:41

And I feel like kitchen layout is like so important. It is, and you know it is because that's where that's when you're that's you're there the most, don't you think?

SPEAKER_05 6:51

It is true, true. Yep.

SPEAKER_03 6:53

And what's the last one, Chris?

SPEAKER_05 6:55

Or how about number two? There's three. I only gave you one. I only gave you one. There's three, Caitlin.

SPEAKER_03 7:00

You're you're like I'm moving on to my jumping around. Exactly.

SPEAKER_05 7:04

Box integrity. And what I mean by box is the cabinet box.

SPEAKER_03 7:09

The one the part that's connected to the wall.

SPEAKER_05 7:11

Correct, right? Open your drawers. Are they particle board that's sagging? Like sometimes you put too much weight in a drawer, it's real thin, it'll start sagging, and eventually it'll fall out. Or water damage under the sink, you know, it gets all nasty down there. If the structural boxes of the cabinets are failing, putting a shiny new door on or painting, yeah, not doing it. Putting a band-aid on a broken leg.

SPEAKER_03 7:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 7:35

It's just not gonna work, right? Not at all. Granted, our if you just have one issue with one drawer, one cabinet, you might be able to apply some some TLC to that one cabinet. Right. But if consistency across your cabinets you're having that issue or some structural integrity changing, then it's time to I will never forget this one story.

SPEAKER_03 7:57

This and I this probably had to do with humidity.

SPEAKER_05 7:59

Was it a band camp or not?

SPEAKER_03 8:01

No, this this is like a secondhand story that I heard that this girl, she's like in her apartment and she's just like in there cooking dinner, and I'm not even kidding. And she took took a picture of it. I mean, all of the cabinets in one like fell off the wall.

SPEAKER_05 8:18

Oh, the wall cabinets fell off.

unknown 8:20

I would die.

SPEAKER_05 8:21

We call that a moment reaction. Meaning everything was hanging up there for years or however long it's been up there, and in a moment's reaction, its fasteners were like, I can't hold on any.

SPEAKER_03 8:34

And it like let it's like you're letting go off the cliff.

SPEAKER_05 8:37

Yeah, but there might have been some telltale signs on that. You never know. We don't know. They could have been pulling away from the wall a little bit, and you may not know that if you didn't see, you know, if you're always looking here. Yeah. So those are things to keep an eye on to make sure that your structural integrity of your boxes, the box is still good on that. So, but there is a third one.

SPEAKER_03 8:57

Do tell, right too.

SPEAKER_05 8:58

I will, and that's the utilities. If you need to move gas line, add a dedicated circuit for a microwave, or fix a 40-year-old plumbing, you have to open the walls anyway. Then that's a perfect time to gut, right? No exception.

SPEAKER_03 9:11

That's a good point.

SPEAKER_05 9:12

Just open them all.

SPEAKER_03 9:13

And some like the gas stuff is nothing you can ever take lightly. And that is only professionals, guys.

SPEAKER_05 9:21

I would highly recommend. I mean, I've seen some DIYers do gas lines themselves because again, box stores make things easy and convenient. You just screw this on here and you run this flexible line over here and you put it up through there and you hook it on there, and you're good to go. Well, on gas lines, don't forget the pipe thread or the pipe dope, and then check your leak, you know, check for leaks after that and all that. So you don't blow your home up with a gas leak, right? Right.

SPEAKER_03 9:45

Terrifying. I mean Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 9:47

Taking care of your home like that is is very key in moving that needle forward, right? Or backward.

SPEAKER_03 9:54

And the utilities, guys, to me, I would definitely want to be spending like if I had to put money somewhere, those are you use those all day.

SPEAKER_05 10:02

Exactly. Exactly. Yeah, you don't want to be you don't want to be jacking around with that stuff, right?

SPEAKER_03 10:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 10:07

So you want to make sure that you're taking care of that stuff. And speaking of taking care of, I've I've got to throw a quick little shout out here. I need to throw a shout out to my personal trainer, Dustin Bateman of Armor Fitness, right? Up in Auburn. Nice dude is he is crushed, he is like ripped, right? Just Dustin's a ripped dude, and he cares about working with people like me that are older older and that maybe had some had some yeah, yeah, had some ailments or inflictions. You know, I've had a hip replacement uh past couple years, and you know, he knows how to work with us elderly. I mean us older people on taking care of that. But this thing to the same thing we're talking about, the homes, right? But yeah, check them out if you take care of your body.

SPEAKER_03 10:47

Yes. I'm glad to hear that. You know, look at us. We're both kind of getting healthy with exercise. We're trying.

SPEAKER_05 10:56

Yeah, we're trying. Yeah, as as I've got my beef jersey, jerky stick over here next to my keyboard with my lunch today. Protein. Yep, the protein, yeah, but the sea salt chips next to me.

SPEAKER_03 11:06

So proud of you.

SPEAKER_05 11:07

Ignore that, Dustin, about my chips that are sitting there beside it, too. But it's all good.

SPEAKER_03 11:10

Those are just for looks, decoration.

SPEAKER_05 11:12

Hey, well, I want to talk about, let's move on to the money, right? We're talking about the wallet part, right? Yeah. So the ROI trap or the return on investment. That's what ROI stands for. And when we talk about money, everyone thinks that a major kitchen model is guaranteed payout when they sell the house. This is interesting because I've fallen guilty to this in the past as well. And sometimes it's sometimes it's my sales hat, my salesmanship coming out, going, Oh, yeah, every dollar you put in, you're gonna get out when you sell it, right? Because I'm selling a job.

SPEAKER_03 11:44

Right, right.

SPEAKER_05 11:44

And it's not always the case, right? That's the biggest misconception in real estate. People think they spend $50,000 on a kitchen, the home value instantly goes up by $50,000. Doesn't work that way in Mid-Illanois.

SPEAKER_03 11:54

It doesn't.

SPEAKER_05 11:55

If you're over-remodeled in your neighborhood, you lose that money. And what I mean by that is if the average home value on your street is $180,000 and you put $60,000 into a chef's kitchen, you know, with commercial appliances, you'll never see that money again. Right. The big dog rule here is simple. Your kitchen remodel budget should be relative to the value of your home, usually between 10 to 15%.

SPEAKER_03 12:24

Okay, that's good. I'm glad that we gave like that exact number.

SPEAKER_05 12:28

Right. But I'm gonna flip that script because if this is your forever home.

SPEAKER_03 12:34

I was just gonna say, but what if you're staying there forever?

SPEAKER_05 12:36

If this is your forever home, who gives a shit?

SPEAKER_03 12:38

Yeah, live you own it.

SPEAKER_05 12:39

You've got the money, drop the 60K into the house. Yes, and you'll have the nicest house on the on the block, right? Until you're in the pine box that Chris has lined up for him out the door, right? Sorry, Chris. Not this Chris, we're talking about Caitlin's Chris because she was gonna put him in a pine box a couple episodes back. So and yeah, poor Chris getting drug across, can't get rid of the painter. So, but that's the thing with that, right? There are there are exceptions to that rule of the 10 to 15% rule of your home value.

SPEAKER_03 13:09

Right.

SPEAKER_05 13:10

Right. Again, know your neighborhood. Are you gonna get a return on your investment? If you're gonna be there five years, let's think about it, right? Or let's get our 10x partners at first choice really pros involved themselves. I was just gonna say they say we drop this in, we're gonna get this in five years. What do you think? Which they're not fortune tellers or or future predictors.

SPEAKER_03 13:30

But they can give recommendations.

SPEAKER_05 13:31

They can give recommendations on that. So, but again, if you're gonna stay there in that home forever or 20 years, you know what I mean? The market may change drastically in 20 years. You never know, right? So it's it really comes down to if you've got the money and you don't care about the market and you want a nice kitchen, then do it. Just invest it.

SPEAKER_03 13:50

And it goes back to everything we always say. You have to have a plan.

SPEAKER_05 13:57

Exactly. And with that plan, this is one of the things that, you know, we do have a big dog compromise. Right. So let's talk about middle ground here, right? What if someone can't afford a full gut, but a coat of paint just isn't enough? Right? There's, you know, there absolutely is, and it's called the cabinet refacing or replacing just the doors.

SPEAKER_03 14:20

Right. And my mom has done this before too. And it was it it made a big difference. And it was exactly from the ones with the more intricate, I guess, like trim to just the modern Right, more sleek.

SPEAKER_05 14:32

Yeah, more sleek. You know, so then that way when you clean, you're not like, let me get a magnifying glass and a Q-tip or a toothpick in there, right? Or my toothbrush.

SPEAKER_03 14:41

And it really helped.

SPEAKER_05 14:42

And she also added the slow close Oh, close hinges and drawer glasses.

SPEAKER_03 14:48

So see, I felt like that was a little bit of a Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 14:51

Yeah, definitely, because that's something that people look for when they're looking at buying a new home. It's like, oh, look at the soft closed drawers.

SPEAKER_03 14:56

A hundred and the soft closed doors. The toilet seats have to have it. Just saying.

SPEAKER_05 15:01

Instead of the slam. Oh, come on. You don't like the slamming days of the lid and the seat?

SPEAKER_03 15:05

I have one that's like that. And my son, I'm like, how is this in one piece? Like, I don't get it.

SPEAKER_05 15:10

Sorry, but you're $20, go buy one.

SPEAKER_03 15:12

I know.

SPEAKER_05 15:13

Chris, I have something for you to put on for me, dear lovey, when you're done painting. So, hey, so cabinet refacing, like you know, putting the just the doors on, your cabinet boxes are structurally sound. You're good with that? You've checked in. You can keep them in place, rip off the old doors, and order brand new ones, modern shaker style doors, probably what your mom did.

SPEAKER_03 15:32

New pulls.

SPEAKER_05 15:33

Right, exactly. So that'd be the time you put your new pulls on. So that's taking the DIY of paint and hardware to that big dog compromise from going instead of doing a full gut, let's just your boxes are good, let's put new doors on them.

SPEAKER_03 15:46

Even the big dog compromise. I mean, I feel like even if you wanted to get new, like depending on your budget and everything, like even if you wanted to switch out your countertops, could be like if they were laminate, it could be affordable.

SPEAKER_05 16:02

Exactly. It really depends on on that budget, right? And so that's the key thing. Think about it.

SPEAKER_03 16:07

All good ideas.

SPEAKER_05 16:08

And it gives you the look of a brand new kitchen at about half the cost of a full tear out or less, even, right? Depending on how extensive that full tear out would be. And half the cost, and it takes a fraction of the time. You know, you're not living without a kitchen for a month or two months, depending on how extensive it is. It's uh the ultimate compromise for a smart homeowner who wants to maximize impact without massive disruption and massive money disruption.

SPEAKER_03 16:34

I was just yeah, financial disruption. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 16:36

Yeah. So I mean that's something to keep in mind there too.

SPEAKER_03 16:39

But some of those things, like what the stuff we just listed is could be done in a day or two.

SPEAKER_05 16:44

Yes. Right. The the what part? A day or two.

SPEAKER_03 16:47

Even the cabinet replacing. I mean, somebody, unless you were doing it yourself or let somebody come if you hired like you or somebody to come in and do it.

SPEAKER_05 16:55

So a couple things on that. If you're just replacing doors, great. Yeah. We come in, measure up what you've got. So we order in those new doors. May take three to six weeks or more to get those doors in because they're being made, then it's just a day. Correct.

SPEAKER_03 17:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 17:09

But if you're going to do door changes and reface the surface of your cabinet boxes, the face frames, then that would add a little bit more time to that.

SPEAKER_03 17:21

You're right, you're right. I didn't think about that. Which has to be done sometimes.

SPEAKER_05 17:24

Exactly. Depending on if it's sustained now and you're wanting to go to painted doors, then that face frame needs to be painted.

SPEAKER_03 17:30

Right, right.

SPEAKER_05 17:30

If it fits your design, right? So yeah, those are those are key things time-wise. Good points, good questions on that. So the final filter, we're filtering, right? We got our Snapchat filter.

SPEAKER_03 17:44

Final countdown.

SPEAKER_05 17:45

We've got a filter going on here, like on Snapchat, right?

SPEAKER_03 17:47

We don't even need filters. We're that we're that.

SPEAKER_05 17:49

I do. I've got some things. Yeah. I do. I do. So anyway, so here's the final filter before a homeowner makes the call to full gut or not, right? Ask yourself this. Am I trying to love this house for the next 10 years or am I trying to sell it in two?

SPEAKER_03 18:10

That's a very good question.

SPEAKER_05 18:12

So that changes everything, doesn't it?

SPEAKER_03 18:14

It really does. And and the fact that you're putting a number on it, I think really helps people. Because people sit, well, like me, I'll sit there and make, oh yeah, it may or may not. But you got to put like a Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 18:27

If you're gonna drop 20K in a kitchen and you're gonna be there two years, essentially your return on investment is $10,000 a year. But if you're gonna spend there 10 years or beyond, now it's $2,000 a year. You're like, oh, okay, I'm investing into that kitchen. Right. Right. And and that's the thing. You know, stay in there long term, uh, invest in the gut job, fix the layout, and build the kitchen you deserve, right?

SPEAKER_03 18:52

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 18:52

But if you're moving soon, stick to that refresh, clean it up, make it bright, and let the next owner decide how they want to gut it or if they want to gut it.

SPEAKER_03 19:02

Right. And we know that that's always a thing. Lisa and Lydia tell us all the time. You you want carpet, they want hardwood.

SPEAKER_05 19:08

Right, exactly. You know, it's personal preference, all of that. It's it's right. That's right. So if your kitchen is too important to guess on, whether you go with a week, weekend refresh or a full-scale renovation, just make sure you're making decisions that protect your home's equity. Right? And that's key on that. Again, not sure, trusted professionals, realtors, our partners, uh, first choice reality pros, even so reach out, message. And and and hey, if this episode helped you clear up anything about your kitchen dilemma or saved you from a major remodeling headache, do us a huge favor, tell a friend, text link, uh, you know, this episode to that coworker who keeps talking about painting their cabinets, or share on your local community page, word of mouth, is how we grow this show, and we appreciate every single one of you that listens and follows.

SPEAKER_03 20:06

We do, and this is how we help. We're doing our due diligence in life.

SPEAKER_05 20:09

Yep, exactly. So before we wrap things up today, we want to leave you with one final thought. We're heading into Memorial Day weekend, which we are, and actually this will air on Memorial Day. So while we hope you enjoy all that sunshine and time with your families, we want to take a moment to look at our the bigger picture.

SPEAKER_03 20:29

And I know we talk a lot about you guys designing and building our homes, but the people who protected our homes, the men and women who gave up the ultimate sacrifice for our home, our country.

SPEAKER_05 20:41

Exactly. Memorial Day is a solemn reminder of the steep price paid for the freedoms we wake up with every day. The heroes we lost from our local Mid-Illinois communities didn't just serve a cause. They gave up their tomorrows so we could have our today's.

SPEAKER_03 20:58

So, guys, when you're firing up the grill, cracking open your beer, look out over your backyard at your family, feel thankful and join us in keeping our fallen service members and their families in your hearts and prayers.

SPEAKER_05 21:10

Enjoy the weekend. Look out for your neighbors and never forget the true cost of our freedom. Don't forget to hit that follow and subscribe button on your podcast app right now so you never miss an episode. And we do salute all the men and women who have sacrificed and lots of their lives for us. Absolutely. And if you want a trusted partner to look at your next home project from the structural envelope to the final trim, reach out to us at Big Dog Construction, your local window depot, USA 217-970-7340. And thanks for listening to Design and Building Mid-Illinois One Home at a time. Stop guessing, start building. We'll see you next time.

SPEAKER_00 21:48

Bye. Hey there. I'm Lisa Miller, managing broker and owner of First Choice Realty Pros. We don't just help you find a house, we help you discover home. My team and I are passionate. Passionate about taking care of your needs, making the process smooth, and ensuring you get the personalized attention you deserve. Ready for the next step? Call us at 217-825-3999. With First Choice Realty Pros, you've got a team that's got your back.

SPEAKER_04 22:19

Big Dog, if you're doing some remodeling or redesign and build, come and see the show room. No one does it like we will call Big Dog. Big Dog. Let us do it once. And then you call the sea. You'll wanna be a part of the Big Dog family. Call Big Dog. Big Dog. If you want the job done and you want it done, let's go 8332 Big Dog. Your local Window Depot, USA.

unknown 22:46

Big Dog.

SPEAKER_05 22:48

Thanks for tuning in to this week's episode of Designing the Building Mid-Illinois, one home at a time with Big Dog Construction.

SPEAKER_03 22:54

If you enjoyed what you heard, be sure to subscribe and follow us on Facebook or any of your favorite socials.

SPEAKER_05 22:59

Check us out on our website, bigdogcc.com. Until next time, keep designing the building.

SPEAKER_03 23:05

See you soon!

unknown 23:07

Big Dog!

SPEAKER_02 23:08

This episode was produced by Big Dog Media Group, delivering powerful creative for brands and creators everywhere. If you're looking to take your podcast to the next level or just get started, Big Dog Media Group has you covered. Thanks for listening.